Programming: Strenght before WOD
Posted: 24 January 2013 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m really confused as to why so many affiliates have a A warm up, then strenght, then the WOD and others just have a warm up then the WOD. In my level 1 seminar, no one mention a strength before doing a WOD. This is something I’ve been wondering myself and if someone please could clarify this about programming. For instance, having strength would count as heavy and W, but then you have you’re WOD lets just say is a triplet WGM. How would you go onto programming the strength part for the rest of the week without bias considering you still need variance. And also, would not this mean that some athletes would save themselves for the WOD and dont try their best on the strength part, which would take all intensity from the strength.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Not sure I folllow….are you wondering that lifting and wods seem mutually exclusive?

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Posted: 25 January 2013 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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My only thought here is that strength work should come before WOD’s and not after. I know for me personally Im usually spent after a WOD and would need a while to recover before attempting to do any strength work. Maybe some people recover faster but Im guessing that isn’t the norm. I mean CFSB is a quick 1 set of 3 or 5 (plus some sets to warm up) and you’re done. That is maybe 15-20 reps total. Thats a lot less taxing on the body than say the 110 front squats i did in the RIP Sean WOD. Had I done that and then tried to do CFSB back squats i would have been able to do way less then had i done the squats first.

But if your goal is good WOD times and you don’t care about it effecting your ability to perform well in the strength portion then by all means do the WOD first.

Hope that is what you were asking.

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M/32/6’2’‘/240#

Compare to 330# in 2009

Warm up: two rounds of 10 air squats, 1 min hamstring stretch, 10 push-ups, 5 pull ups, 5 dips, 10 deep squats holding on to a poll for perfect form, 10 sit ups, 200 m run, 5 KTE.

I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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agr_rod - 24 January 2013 04:54 PM

I’m really confused as to why so many affiliates have a A warm up, then strenght, then the WOD and others just have a warm up then the WOD. In my level 1 seminar, no one mention a strength before doing a WOD. This is something I’ve been wondering myself and if someone please could clarify this about programming. For instance, having strength would count as heavy and W, but then you have you’re WOD lets just say is a triplet WGM. How would you go onto programming the strength part for the rest of the week without bias considering you still need variance. And also, would not this mean that some athletes would save themselves for the WOD and dont try their best on the strength part, which would take all intensity from the strength.

You’d have to ask the individual affiliates to know why they implemented additional strength work. Their reasons will vary as will their approach to what they do as additional work.
Some follow a strength program based on a progression of load and exercise choice, others include gymnastic skills in their pre-WOD training. Some seem to choose what they do fairly randomly, others work to an observable plan.
Brand X coined the terms “Buy In” and “Cash Out”, terms borrowed from poker, for their Pre and post WOD work respectively.
At Brand X a training session often looks like this:
Buy in; Strength work e.g. find your 3RM front squat
The WOD; Normal Metcon style workout. Heavy or light, long or short, task or time based etc.
Cash Out; Normally skill work, e.g. handstand holds. Cash outs don’t seem to feature as much these days in GD’s written programming , but they may be going on still.

The whole concept came from Coach Glassman’s open letter to all affiliates titled “Virtuosity”. GD has posted it here http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/1139/ and the original is a free download in the CF Journal here http://journal.crossfit.com/2005/08/virtuosity-1.tpl.
This bit near the end is what kicked it off for Brand X.

There is plenty of time within an hour session to warm up, practice a basic movement or skill or pursue a new PR or max lift, discuss and critique the athletes efforts, and then pound out a tight little couplet or triplet utilizing these skills or just play. Play is important. Tire flipping, basketball, relay races, tag, Hooverball, and the like are essential to good programming, but they are seasoning like salt, pepper, and oregano. They are not main courses.

Here is a video from a CF Coaches prep course that might be useful, http://journal.crossfit.com/2011/06/cpctragetedvsbias.tpl. I don’t agree with all of it, but it illustrates that HQ do recognise that CF programming can be tailored to address specific needs.

A problem many Affiliates encounter is that their athletes are fundamentally lacking in raw strength. In BX terms, they can get to about Pack level scaling but can’t make the final step to Big Dawgs because the weights are to heavy for them. Home crossfitters and people looking to start CF deal with that in lots of silly ways, the dumbest being:
Thinking they need to get strong before they start CF.
Even worse, stopping CF to do a strength program and then coming back to CF, thinking that their strength gains will transfer to metcons.

GD published a strength biased system of programming to counter those two concepts which were appearing with frightening frequency on the mainsite forum and staring to show up here. His co-author called it “CrossFit Strength Bias” or “CFSB”. You can find the original article in the CF Journal here http://journal.crossfit.com/2009/02/crossfit-strength-bias.tpl. Basically it’s documentation of how GD had been programming for his clients at Brand X. GD is still refining that and what he does now departs from it to some extent. A modified and more generally applicable version is what we’ve called “CFSB lite” which you can find here http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php/forums/viewreply/245169/ and later in the same topic, here http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php/forums/viewreply/245266/.
CFSB lite is possibly more universally applicable because the full implementation of CFSB introduces a definite bias toward developing strength in the programming which requires participants do metcons which support that. It’s hard to do with mainsite programming for example. CFSB will produce CrossFitting powerlifters. Most people don’t need that, they just need to get a bit stronger, so CFSB lite is probably a better fit.

In theory, it’s possible to just do metcon based programming and get as strong as you will ever need to, but in practise it’s simpler to tackle the problem head on and add some additional strength work. And it’s a good opportunity to address deficiencies in technique with the basic lifts, which comes back to Coach’s letter on Virtuosity.

A final note. We recommend that people training on their own don’t introduce additional strength work until they’ve been doing CF for at least 6 months and ideally 12-18 months. At an affiliate newbies will often not participate in the strength based buy in and instead will work off to one side with a coach to develop their technique in the lift used in the strength work, or in a precursor movement. I.e. you don’t let people try for a heavy back squat if their air squat sucks.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Yeah what he said smile

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M/32/6’2’‘/240#

Compare to 330# in 2009

Warm up: two rounds of 10 air squats, 1 min hamstring stretch, 10 push-ups, 5 pull ups, 5 dips, 10 deep squats holding on to a poll for perfect form, 10 sit ups, 200 m run, 5 KTE.

I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle.

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Posted: 28 January 2013 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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From what I’ve read:
Am I right in saying that none of this stuff fits into ‘beginner’s crossfit?’ I read the CF strength bias article, and it seems pretty clear on the point that additional strength work for beginners is neither necessary nor desirable. If you’re following the scaling on this site, there’s plenty of days when everybody is a big dawg for strength work anyway. I’m also annoyed at the wannabe powerlifters who tell you that you should spend six months getting fat before doing crossfit.

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Posted: 28 January 2013 05:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Wisey - 28 January 2013 05:38 AM

From what I’ve read:
Am I right in saying that none of this stuff fits into ‘beginner’s crossfit?’ I read the CF strength bias article, and it seems pretty clear on the point that additional strength work for beginners is neither necessary nor desirable. If you’re following the scaling on this site, there’s plenty of days when everybody is a big dawg for strength work anyway. I’m also annoyed at the wannabe powerlifters who tell you that you should spend six months getting fat before doing crossfit.

Weeeeelll, yep. 

We try and point out that Crossfit is a Strength AND Conditioning program and that for the most part, additional strength work for most folks isn’t needed in the beginning.  Later on, maybe, but too, by that point, you should be able to take and adapt to a new stimulus.  I mean really, you want to to the least amount of work for the most amount of result and most folks don’t need anything but the WOD in the beginning. 

TP

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The common denominator of success—- the secret of success of every man who has ever been successful—- lies in the fact that he formed the habit of doing things that failures don’t like to do.—Albert Grey

“Really Connor? Really?”—Jeff Martin

http://rantopedia.blogspot.com/ (my blog)
http://www.facebook.com/patrick.hoffman1

M-47/5’11”/180lbs

There’s a reason they don’t call it “Fight Gone Good”.

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Posted: 28 January 2013 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Metric - 25 January 2013 03:06 PM

A problem many Affiliates encounter is that their athletes are fundamentally lacking in raw strength. In BX terms, they can get to about Pack level scaling but can’t make the final step to Big Dawgs because the weights are to heavy for them.

I find this to be true of myself—often RX WODs are simply too heavy.  That said, I feel that for me, the (scaled) WODs help the strength more than the strength help the WODS.

At the affiliate I attend, strength work generally precedes the WOD and can include deadlifts, squats, presses, cleans, jerks, snatches, thrusters,and perhaps more movements each with several potential variation, rep schemes, sets, and time schemes.  They may also include bands or chains or other items introduced at the latest seminar.  If there is an overall scheme, plan, or progression I don’t know what it is.  Each week brings something new. 

I enjoy the strength work, but hold no notion that it is actually building me in any logical manner.  Keep in mind that this is the strength work of a single affiliate and not CF Strength Bias.

I see value in the affiliate strength work, though.  It is a great chance to work on the movement outside of a WOD.

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Posted: 14 March 2013 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Any thoughts on doing CFSB lite for other lifts? I have decent strength in all the standard lifts (dl, press, back squat), but I really struggle with front squats and overhead squats. I was thinking about adding a linear progression for front and oh squats and possible a few others that are lagging i.e. power cleans, snatch… though my problems with snatch can largely be solved with oh squats.

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