Muscle, Power, Squat Cleans Feedback
Posted: 07 July 2014 06:41 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Thought I’d share these for some critiques/feedback.  Note: I don’t claim do be good at any of these movements.  wink

Muscle Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Power Clean:

http://youtu.be/gEnkDYt0AFg

Squat Clean:

http://youtu.be/95emr13prjk

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2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

1 Corinthians 9:25 All athletes are disciplined in their training.  They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.

Why do I workout?  To make light of heavy situations.

M/34/5’10”/185

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Posted: 07 July 2014 07:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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TM79 - 07 July 2014 06:41 PM

Thought I’d share these for some critiques/feedback.  Note: I don’t claim do be good at any of these movements.  wink

Muscle Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Power Clean:

http://youtu.be/gEnkDYt0AFg

Squat Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Hey Trent, Good to see you in action. The muscle clean and Squat cleans videos are the same muscle clean video. Your legs are your weak link. your not using them. I see all lower back pulling the weight. not a good thing for back. If you watch Olympic lifters in action you will see the legs starting the bar movement, all the power comes when you are above the knees and the hips go into 2nd pull. This requires the back to be maintained in a flat upright position to keep bar in close to the body. Heres a video where I was doing 253 lbs on Clean and Jerk. http://vimeo.com/74493002  . watch how my legs are starting the movement and then the hip explosion comes into play. Bar is maintained close to body to keep momentum loss to minimum.This took years of just doing Olympic lifting practice to get the flexibility on this. Hope this helps. Good job on your PRs   Here’s great video of the clean in slow motion . http://youtu.be/4YJ_L7jqgoA  the lifter is Chad Vaughn a nationally ranked lifter.

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Posted: 07 July 2014 07:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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OPG57 - 07 July 2014 07:18 PM
TM79 - 07 July 2014 06:41 PM

Thought I’d share these for some critiques/feedback.  Note: I don’t claim do be good at any of these movements.  wink

Muscle Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Power Clean:

http://youtu.be/gEnkDYt0AFg

Squat Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Hey Trent, Good to see you in action. The muscle clean and Squat cleans videos are the same muscle clean video. Your legs are your weak link. your not using them. I see all lower back pulling the weight. not a good thing for back. If you watch Olympic lifters in action you will see the legs starting the bar movement, all the power comes when you are above the knees and the hips go into 2nd pull. This requires the back to be maintained in a flat upright position to keep bar in close to the body. Heres a video where I was doing 253 lbs on Clean and Jerk. http://vimeo.com/74493002  . watch how my legs are starting the movement and then the hip explosion comes into play. Bar is maintained close to body to keep momentum loss to minimum.This took years of just doing Olympic lifting practice to get the flexibility on this. Hope this helps. Good job on your PRs

Thanks for your feedback Guy.  I fixed the video, but the lower back still does a lot of the work on the squat clean.  Your video is the model of perfection of this movement.  Looks like some practice is in order.  Hopefully my knees will cooperate too.

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2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

1 Corinthians 9:25 All athletes are disciplined in their training.  They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.

Why do I workout?  To make light of heavy situations.

M/34/5’10”/185

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Posted: 07 July 2014 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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TM79 - 07 July 2014 07:50 PM
OPG57 - 07 July 2014 07:18 PM
TM79 - 07 July 2014 06:41 PM

Thought I’d share these for some critiques/feedback.  Note: I don’t claim do be good at any of these movements.  wink

Muscle Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Power Clean:

http://youtu.be/gEnkDYt0AFg

Squat Clean:

http://youtu.be/dc7TvzAb6V8

Hey Trent, Good to see you in action. The muscle clean and Squat cleans videos are the same muscle clean video. Your legs are your weak link. your not using them. I see all lower back pulling the weight. not a good thing for back. If you watch Olympic lifters in action you will see the legs starting the bar movement, all the power comes when you are above the knees and the hips go into 2nd pull. This requires the back to be maintained in a flat upright position to keep bar in close to the body. Heres a video where I was doing 253 lbs on Clean and Jerk. http://vimeo.com/74493002  . watch how my legs are starting the movement and then the hip explosion comes into play. Bar is maintained close to body to keep momentum loss to minimum.This took years of just doing Olympic lifting practice to get the flexibility on this. Hope this helps. Good job on your PRs

Thanks for your feedback Guy.  I fixed the video, but the lower back still does a lot of the work on the squat clean.  Your video is the model of perfection of this movement.  Looks like some practice is in order.  Hopefully my knees will cooperate too.

Good deal on the fix. OK 1st thing is learning to do Olympic squat . when we pull a clean most lifters will jump out into wider stance when landing. Not all but most,  Here’s an example of Lea Ann jumping out. see how narrow she starts on her stance and then how wide she gets on the landing. http://vimeo.com/76050566  learning to do cleans is all about developing flexibility in knees ankles hips back. You are very tight in your form. Don’t worry, most of us started where you’re at. If you want to learn this it will require you dedicating some time to it. Since you’re on the road a lot that can be tough as far as using weights.But you can focus on stretching even in hotels. You will need to carry a PVC or rigid electrical conduit bar 5 feet long to work shoulder dislocates , overhead squats , Rack position doing front squats to loosen everything up. Your squat postion is knees forward , that places way to much stress on knees. You want a wider stance on Olympic lifts with toes pointed out more.watch the Chad Vaughn slow motion video again and study his foot position . Getting good at this requires that you learn to get deep on the landing and be able to recover from it. Thanks for the kind words on my form. It isn’t perfect but it was the best I could do at the time.Take care Trent.    Here’s a video I also posted yesterday of me doing power cleans and final sets of Squat cleans   http://vimeo.com/100121292  I wanted you to see how long it took me to go through my sets. I believe in recovering before attempting next rep so every effort is the best I can make it.

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The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:11

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Posted: 08 July 2014 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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TM79,

Lets start with you lifting from the ground. You need to work on your set-up. Search Mark Rippetoe deadlift set-up.
On your cleans, all of them. My recommendation would be to work from the hang position and just work the second pull. Hips back, knees out, straight arms and triple extension.
Your Squat clean again, I would work on your Front squat, until you get the depth and good rack position. Keep up the work man, and send more videos.

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Posted: 08 July 2014 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Thanks Guy and Big D.  I’m definitely going to try and work on these movements.  I was told by my doctor that anything I gain by going so low into a squat would be negated by damaging my knees.  I know this is a big debate and I have no idea which side is right or wrong.  As you mentioned, Guy, my squat stance is really far forward and it kills my knees.  That’s why I cringe when I see a WOD with squats nowadays.  Even after taking 4 or 5 days off two weeks ago, my knees still hurt just as bad as they did on the day of my last workout.  All that being said, if I need to go that low to perform the movement correctly, then I guess that’s what I have to do.  (Note: After an MRI of my bad knee, it has been determined that the back of my knee cap has arthritis/rough edges.  That’s the extent of it as of now and I have no further action planned to repair them. 

I may look into getting two 2.5’ sections of PVC with a coupling or something (can’t fit a 5’ pipe into my suitcase).  I’ll try to work on this as much as I can.  Thanks again guys.

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2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

1 Corinthians 9:25 All athletes are disciplined in their training.  They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.

Why do I workout?  To make light of heavy situations.

M/34/5’10”/185

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Posted: 08 July 2014 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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BTW Big D.  Your picture sure reminds me of one of the ferry docks in the Virgin Islands.

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2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

1 Corinthians 9:25 All athletes are disciplined in their training.  They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.

Why do I workout?  To make light of heavy situations.

M/34/5’10”/185

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Posted: 08 July 2014 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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TM79 - 08 July 2014 12:01 PM

Thanks Guy and Big D.  I’m definitely going to try and work on these movements.  I was told by my doctor that anything I gain by going so low into a squat would be negated by damaging my knees.  I know this is a big debate and I have no idea which side is right or wrong.  As you mentioned, Guy, my squat stance is really far forward and it kills my knees.  That’s why I cringe when I see a WOD with squats nowadays.

Couple things:

1) If your knees really hurt through the entire range of a squat, then stick to the “power” version of things, i.e., don’t go below parallel and save your knees.

2) Does it hurt your knees when you sit in a chair and get up?  How about a low stool?

TP

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Posted: 08 July 2014 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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TexasPatrick - 08 July 2014 12:14 PM
TM79 - 08 July 2014 12:01 PM

Thanks Guy and Big D.  I’m definitely going to try and work on these movements.  I was told by my doctor that anything I gain by going so low into a squat would be negated by damaging my knees.  I know this is a big debate and I have no idea which side is right or wrong.  As you mentioned, Guy, my squat stance is really far forward and it kills my knees.  That’s why I cringe when I see a WOD with squats nowadays.

Couple things:

1) If your knees really hurt through the entire range of a squat, then stick to the “power” version of things, i.e., don’t go below parallel and save your knees.

2) Does it hurt your knees when you sit in a chair and get up?  How about a low stool?

TP

Good call Patrick I was about to mention sitting back into the chair with wide stance to deload his knees .

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The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:11

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Posted: 08 July 2014 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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TM79 - 08 July 2014 12:01 PM

Thanks Guy and Big D.  I’m definitely going to try and work on these movements.  I was told by my doctor that anything I gain by going so low into a squat would be negated by damaging my knees.  I know this is a big debate and I have no idea which side is right or wrong.  As you mentioned, Guy, my squat stance is really far forward and it kills my knees.  That’s why I cringe when I see a WOD with squats nowadays.  Even after taking 4 or 5 days off two weeks ago, my knees still hurt just as bad as they did on the day of my last workout.  All that being said, if I need to go that low to perform the movement correctly, then I guess that’s what I have to do.  (Note: After an MRI of my bad knee, it has been determined that the back of my knee cap has arthritis/rough edges.  That’s the extent of it as of now and I have no further action planned to repair them. 

I may look into getting two 2.5’ sections of PVC with a coupling or something (can’t fit a 5’ pipe into my suitcase).  I’ll try to work on this as much as I can.  Thanks again guys.

Hey trent heres a video I did for the site some time ago . Try squatting in the fashion I am demonstrating in video.  http://vimeo.com/81277500. This style takes the stress off the knees. I use this to train folks on Box Squats. See how it feels. Work on stretching your inner thighs out and flaring your knees out wards as you sit back. Heres what the form looks like when I was powerlifting http://vimeo.com/81416983

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The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:11

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Posted: 08 July 2014 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Hi Guys,

Right now, it does actually hurt to sit in a chair.  As a matter of fact, if I’m sitting down for more than about thirty minutes, my knees hurt like crazy until I stretch them out.  That being said, sitting in a chair doesn’t hurt as bad as normal squats.  I watched your video Guy and that is how I try to do Back Squats right now.  My weight is more forward on Front and OH Squats.  I should post a video of OH Squats as that would definitely show you how bad it is. 

At first, I was doing them with my knees open and feet facing out like in your video.  It wasn’t until I tried it the way that Kelly Starrett published (toes pointed forward) that I hurt my knee.  You talk about a movement that feels unnatural…  I don’t know, I’m not trying to say there isn’t some truth to what he teaches, but it doesn’t seem to work for me on the squats.  I’m not saying that it was the toes pointed forward that caused my injury.  It was likely my weight being so far forward that caused it.  (And the injury itself ended up being a sprain or something)  I’m just saying that it felt terribly unnatural to point my toes forward while doing squats.

Here is a photo I took back in January when I was first trying the OH Squat.  I doubt my form has changed much, at least from the waist up.  I now point my toes out and legs are a little further apart.

ohsquat_zpscaebbba2.jpg

For whatever reason, I cannot get that bar behind my head.  With Front Squats, it is of course, forward too. 

My doctor, who is in the college football hall of fame, told me not to go below parallel, or just slightly less than 90 degrees.  He said that any gain I may be getting strength wise would be negated by tearing my knees up.  I truthfully think that the pain I feel right now is over use (and likely bad form).  I’ve had knee pain since I was in college.  Crossfit has aggravated it.  I really appreciate the advice.  Please keep it coming.  It would be nice to be able to stick with this program.  I think the main difference between now and my old workout routine was that I only lifted legs once per week, so it didn’t aggravate my knees that much.

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2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

1 Corinthians 9:25 All athletes are disciplined in their training.  They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.

Why do I workout?  To make light of heavy situations.

M/34/5’10”/185

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Posted: 08 July 2014 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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TM79 - 08 July 2014 02:01 PM

Hi Guys,

Right now, it does actually hurt to sit in a chair.  As a matter of fact, if I’m sitting down for more than about thirty minutes, my knees hurt like crazy until I stretch them out.  That being said, sitting in a chair doesn’t hurt as bad as normal squats.  I watched your video Guy and that is how I try to do Back Squats right now.  My weight is more forward on Front and OH Squats.  I should post a video of OH Squats as that would definitely show you how bad it is. 

At first, I was doing them with my knees open and feet facing out like in your video.  It wasn’t until I tried it the way that Kelly Starrett published (toes pointed forward) that I hurt my knee.  You talk about a movement that feels unnatural…  I don’t know, I’m not trying to say there isn’t some truth to what he teaches, but it doesn’t seem to work for me on the squats.  I’m not saying that it was the toes pointed forward that caused my injury.  It was likely my weight being so far forward that caused it.  (And the injury itself ended up being a sprain or something)  I’m just saying that it felt terribly unnatural to point my toes forward while doing squats.

Here is a photo I took back in January when I was first trying the OH Squat.  I doubt my form has changed much, at least from the waist up.  I now point my toes out and legs are a little further apart.

ohsquat_zpscaebbba2.jpg

For whatever reason, I cannot get that bar behind my head.  With Front Squats, it is of course, forward too. 

My doctor, who is in the college football hall of fame, told me not to go below parallel, or just slightly less than 90 degrees.  He said that any gain I may be getting strength wise would be negated by tearing my knees up.  I truthfully think that the pain I feel right now is over use (and likely bad form).  I’ve had knee pain since I was in college.  Crossfit has aggravated it.  I really appreciate the advice.  Please keep it coming.  It would be nice to be able to stick with this program.  I think the main difference between now and my old workout routine was that I only lifted legs once per week, so it didn’t aggravate my knees that much.

I agree with your assessment on bad form. The Picture of you demonstrates a beginners range of motion . in shoulders back leg position ankle flexibility. This is no different them most folks starting out. It requires you working on stretching these areas out to develop the range of motion to alleviate knee pain . I like the Box squat method as far as sitting back and removing the knee stress and transferring load into hips , glutes and hamstrings. This also requires inner thigh flexibility for flaring knees outward when sitting back. I’ve found it to be effective on every lifter who has given it a try. The exception on you would be if you have some condition where you have significant damage in knees that negates doing any squat movement what so ever.I would back off any squats until you get this sorted out. Knee pain is no fun and is usually an indicator of something not being done right. Your shoulders will respond to working simple dislocates and stretching movements to increase Shoulders range of motion. Best wishes Trent wink

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The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:11

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Posted: 08 July 2014 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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OPG57 - 08 July 2014 04:12 PM
TM79 - 08 July 2014 02:01 PM

Hi Guys,

Right now, it does actually hurt to sit in a chair.  As a matter of fact, if I’m sitting down for more than about thirty minutes, my knees hurt like crazy until I stretch them out.  That being said, sitting in a chair doesn’t hurt as bad as normal squats.  I watched your video Guy and that is how I try to do Back Squats right now.  My weight is more forward on Front and OH Squats.  I should post a video of OH Squats as that would definitely show you how bad it is. 

At first, I was doing them with my knees open and feet facing out like in your video.  It wasn’t until I tried it the way that Kelly Starrett published (toes pointed forward) that I hurt my knee.  You talk about a movement that feels unnatural…  I don’t know, I’m not trying to say there isn’t some truth to what he teaches, but it doesn’t seem to work for me on the squats.  I’m not saying that it was the toes pointed forward that caused my injury.  It was likely my weight being so far forward that caused it.  (And the injury itself ended up being a sprain or something)  I’m just saying that it felt terribly unnatural to point my toes forward while doing squats.

Here is a photo I took back in January when I was first trying the OH Squat.  I doubt my form has changed much, at least from the waist up.  I now point my toes out and legs are a little further apart.

ohsquat_zpscaebbba2.jpg

For whatever reason, I cannot get that bar behind my head.  With Front Squats, it is of course, forward too. 

My doctor, who is in the college football hall of fame, told me not to go below parallel, or just slightly less than 90 degrees.  He said that any gain I may be getting strength wise would be negated by tearing my knees up.  I truthfully think that the pain I feel right now is over use (and likely bad form).  I’ve had knee pain since I was in college.  Crossfit has aggravated it.  I really appreciate the advice.  Please keep it coming.  It would be nice to be able to stick with this program.  I think the main difference between now and my old workout routine was that I only lifted legs once per week, so it didn’t aggravate my knees that much.

I agree with your assessment on bad form. The Picture of you demonstrates a beginners range of motion . in shoulders back leg position ankle flexibility. This is no different them most folks starting out. It requires you working on stretching these areas out to develop the range of motion to alleviate knee pain . I like the Box squat method as far as sitting back and removing the knee stress and transferring load into hips , glutes and hamstrings. This also requires inner thigh flexibility for flaring knees outward when sitting back. I’ve found it to be effective on every lifter who has given it a try. The exception on you would be if you have some condition where you have significant damage in knees that negates doing any squat movement what so ever.I would back off any squats until you get this sorted out. Knee pain is no fun and is usually an indicator of something not being done right. Your shoulders will respond to working simple dislocates and stretching movements to increase Shoulders range of motion. Best wishes Trent wink

Thanks so much Guy.  I’m going to start working on the box squat method, shoulder dislocates and other shoulder stretches to work on that Front Rack and Overhead position.  Any ideas on using cold or heat packs, etc.?

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2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

1 Corinthians 9:25 All athletes are disciplined in their training.  They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize.

Why do I workout?  To make light of heavy situations.

M/34/5’10”/185

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Posted: 08 July 2014 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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At the time of injury folks will alternate hot and cold for 15 minutes ea. I normally just use heating pad myself. Good luck on the training Trent

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The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:11

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Posted: 11 July 2014 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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TM79

The picture by the way is in Haiti.

You have a lot of good advice from the guys here. Take what you can do without pain and mobilize. Maybe take another video in a few weeks.

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‹‹ no video      OHS for 2 reps ››