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U.S. children showing hardening of arteries
Posted: 07 January 2007 01:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Bobbi,
I had forgotten this post had anything to do with your son until you mentioned it. You need to give us more credit than that. We don’t judge people by their size, strength or look either. No one was saying your son doesn’t have a legitimate problem. I’m sorry that he does. We were speaking in general terms about the general public. We enjoy a good discussion, that’s all. If you look at the old threads, you will find BBOJ and Petunia have engaged in this type of verbal jousting on more than one occasion. Yet they are the best of friends. Don’t take it so personally.

You need to reread Mikki’s posts. She never said there weren’t other pressing issues. I believe her point is that we should deal with the things over which we have the power to immediately enact change, those things we are willingly doing to ourselves. Then we can begin to deal with those things that require all of us to agree. I have spoken to her in private discussions about environmental-type issues. She does not have her head in the sand. The topic of eating behaviors is simply a subject near and dear to her heart, borne out of personal experience, both good and bad.

Honestly, if she thought you were cuckoo, she wouldn’t post it on the forum. Lighten up. And thank you for taking the time to research and let us know about possible issues.  smile

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Posted: 08 January 2007 02:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Go Irish
Thank You- You did a nice job of putting the whole thing in a nutshell.

Bobbi, This board is for discussions, I expect them to be lively and informative. I am glad to see that differing points of view are represented- It makes us all Think !
The fact that we may disgree, vehemently at times, is not a personal attack, and it makes me sad to think you took it as such. No offense was intended.

To clarify, I do not judge the quality of an individual by their physical appearance, ever. I do not assume to know their challenges, unless they choose to discuss them with me.  What I do assume is that part of my job description is to help guide people to positive choices for better health.
Those suggestions need to be fairly simple and straightforward.  Eat more of this, less of that, exercise functionally, intensely and often.

Sadly, I do believe that our culture allows for far too many “syndromes and disorders” (BTW they simply did not do this in the WWII era)
Thus allowing people a reason not to address some of the more simple to adjust behavioral aspects of their health. This is meant as a general comment.
My position as described above, does not discount environmental, or metabolic issues.  However, clearly we disagree on the proportion of the population suffering from these and the amount of their impact.

You brought up many additional issues in your last post, which I believe could each have a thread of their own, cancers of many stripes, depression, etc.
The question for me is not if the prevalence of these things are increasing in our society, (on that we can agree) but causation. Maybe we can agree that the jury is still out on many of these… Otherwise let’s get patents !

As far as catastrophe, as you said no one can assume to know another. My Dad died of colon cancer when I was 8, his sister many years later. All of my Grandparents passed before I was born. My sister and Maternal GM both had breast cancer….

How does this make me insensitive to say that I do not pretend to know the definitive cause ?  Increased occurance does not validate a single theory of causation. It should however, make us consider many variables.
I am glad that there are experts in these fields working diligently to find those answers.

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Posted: 10 January 2007 03:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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[quote author=“BlueBugofJustice”]I am talking simple proportional response.
I keep elaborating, but your insisting that I am discounting things, because I see them as proportionally smaller, crisis ? nah ! issues, yes.
I do think that while consuming 153 pounds of sugar, and drinking mostly packaged products, that the few tainted amoebas, is a smaller issue, not a crisis. Certainly, I would address the elephant in the room, first.

I hear you; I just don’t agree. What I’m saying is that poor nutrition/lack of exercise and a poor environment are both equally large elephants; I think that they’re of different breeds and are both a crisis. (I still don’t get how saying one thing is a crisis and one thing isn’t doesn’t discount the latter, but…no worries. It’s probably just semantics.)

[quote author=“BlueBugofJustice”]Sadly, I do believe that our culture allows for far too many “syndromes and disorders” (BTW they simply did not do this in the WWII era)

Now you KNOW I agree with that.

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Posted: 10 January 2007 06:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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so we don’t agree on proportion, cie la vie. LOL

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Posted: 15 January 2007 03:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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I did not take it personally, and no one made any referral back to my son.  I just thought about it and figured I should have not used his personal straggles as an example here, it is his private life.  Many people at Brand X have offered to help him, and I appreciate that immensely.  I was just beating up myself for being so careless. 

Mikki: No questioning the solid advice you give.  Unfortunately many people that have struggles with weight are the only ones that come and get advice on basic health and nutrition.  Perhaps I would die young if I didnít have to struggle and then as a result become educated. 

I do think that our change from our origin life style of survival to desk jobs, the percentage of pedophiles on the street that make us afraid to let our kids run all over the place, the fact that we have small families so we donít have the built in safety in numbers scenario and etc., the fact that both parents work in high numbers so we spend our time in the evenings and on the weekends doing domestic chores instead of going out and recreating, all contributes to the state of poor health in our country.  Most of my friends donít even do their own yard work any more, and more and more people donít even have a yard to work in. 

My statements about how I think about people were not a reference to say the people posting here were not, just what my motivation is and what makes me tick.  This was in reference that some thought my discussion on metabolism was a slight to their hard work.  If you worked hard and it worked for you, or you worked hard and it didnít, or you did not work hard, I love you anyway.

But I also think it is a crisis when our government knowingly requires chemicals to be put in our water that cause health effects and does not tell us.  It infuriates me that the research is out on the effects of hormone pollutants in the water supply and our government does nothing.  There are so many things that our government is aware of that cause health problems but are still allowed in our food.  Case in point, Benzene can be formed when you consume ascorbic acid and sodium benzoate.  There are often found together in soda and other beverages like green tea. It is a known carcinogen.  So, why is this allowed in our food, when it is prohibited from being in our water?  Our country allows twice the amount of pesticides that Canada allows.  We have the research to show it causes cancer, so why does the public tolerate this?  Hydrogen peroxide is known to cause specific health problems when consumed, and when injected can cause death, yet our government is getting after the manufacturers only for false claims to cure cancer; is not making them put warnings on the label to disclose the health risks, nor requiring that the item be pulled.  Why?  Because it is not being sold as a food, only a supplement. 

You canít get away from it by purchasing organic because your crops are watered with polluted water and the containers the food is delivered in is problematic.  It is not about making choices.  You canít get away from all this stuff.  My main two points here and where we seem to be in disagreement is I think the amount of pollution we have is a crisis, and I think that our governmentís lack of action is a crisis. 

I make no comparison to whether pollution is more important then diet and exercise.  All are important.  Perhaps the sentiments here, that Mikki has expressed that she does not think there is a crisis are typical of most people.  Perhaps most people feel this way and so perhaps that is why our government is not taking action.  The idea that we canít know why any one person died of cancer still does not take away from the importance that we know many, many people are effected, and should we not care?  Should we not speak up? 

If this does bug you, you can write to The Regional Public Afairs Office of the FDA. http://www.fda.gov/comments.html

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Posted: 15 January 2007 05:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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I think the word crisis is overused, I react to it badly.

That being said I think there are many environmental issues worth our attention and concern. I am very aware of the benzene problem…and some others, but we diverge in our perception of what we can do- until some of these things are controlled or banned. We can limit exposure to many of the enumerated concerns about additives by eating a Paleo or Zone diet with a limited amount of processed foods, washing fruits and veggies and buying bottled water.
I am not trying to be a Pollyanna, but I want to get to what I can do about the things I cannot control, rather than count the things I cannot control.
I appreciate that there are people out there studying and working to maintain the “clean” nature of our food supply, it is an enormous job.

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“History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid” - Gen Eisenhower.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 04:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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[quote author=“BlueBugofJustice”] We can limit exposure to many of the enumerated concerns about additives by eating a Paleo or Zone diet with a limited amount of processed foods, washing fruits and veggies and buying bottled water.

I understand the fruits, veggies, no processed foods, and bottled water. But how does eating a Zone diet (I’m not familiar with Paleo) limit exposure to additives?

I’m not being snotty! I’m really just wondering because I don’t understand the connection. I mean…for example, if you eat meat from animals shot up with hormones, that’s part of a Zone diet but it does nothing about the hormones. Wouldn’t you need to eat hormone-free meat no matter your diet to limit your exposure to the additive?

I’m asking because I think (but can’t swear to it) that we’re talking about two different things here: poor nutrition and pollutants. They both lead to poor health, but they aren’t necessarily directly linked. Sometimes they are, of course, as in the case of chemicals on fruit, hormones in meat, etc. But you can eat a really healthy (food-wise) diet that’s full of pollutants AND you can eat a poor diet that’s pollution-free. So I just want to make sure I understand everyone’s point.

P.S. Bobbi…I might be the only one, but I completely agree with you. And I love that you mentioned the containers food is packed in being a problem. Just sitting around, plastic emits known carcinogens and carbons into the air and into the food it contains. That’s its waste. For decades, environmentalists have been screaming about plastics (also because they don’t biodegrade, of course). But everyone just shrugs them off as zealots. The thing is that, no, by itself plastic probably won’t kill you. But combined with benzene, auto emissions, electrical emissions, factory waste, nuclear waste, toxic paints, etc., it might. Buying organic won’t solve all the problems, but if organic were the standard rather than the exception, I do think we’d lessen the problems considerably. Often, organic products, especially from organic local stores, rather than chains like Whole Foods, even limit the chemicals in the product’s container. For example, I buy Dr. Brommer’s soap wrapped in recycled chemical-free paper. A small effort, perhaps, but at least I know it’s one less piece of plastic. If everyone did that, it would make a huge difference, I think. So I think the problem is quantity more than anything.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 04:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Petunia-
It’s nice to have another “tree-hugger” around :D I buy as much organic food as I can that stays within my Zone parameters, my cleaners are all natural, I use canvas bags at the grocery store and I buy as many recycled products as possible. I recycle everything I possibly can, only buy animal products that are hormone free, and I know this will make Jeff laugh, but even my shampoo is vegan. My question to you is, do you think that any of these things I do is actually helping the environment? I won’t stop doing them but I always wonder if I’m helping, in the scheme of things. I know you’re wise in the ways of the world and I’m curious about your opinion.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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I’m all about tree hugging. smile I’m also really sensitive to animal issues, so if I didn’t believe so strongly in the saving grace of protein (and hadn’t personally experienced the awful headaches and fatigue that go along with a low protein diet), I’d totally be a vegetarian.

I’m not an expert on any of this, but here’s my opinion. As for whether or not buying organic, recycling, etc. does any good, I think it does, even if it’s on a small scale. The papers (or whatever) you recycle are that much less that goes in the landfill and there’s that much more room for other things. I have a friend who is mostly a vegetarian (he occasionally eats wild fish), and years ago, he told me that he became a vegetarian because he hoped to leave behind the least personal environmental impact he could. He said he wished he could make it through his life with the planet never knowing he was there (lofty and unrealistic, yes, but cool). I really liked that idea and kind of jumped on his bandwagon. I try to do the same thing and I think that the more people who do that, the more it helps. But even though environmentalism has become somewhat commonplace in California, Oregon, etc., it’s still pretty foreign to the rest of the country. When I go visit relatives in rural Virginia, I have to let go of most of my concerns else I’d starve for lack of food choices. Hormone free and vegan aren’t terms my aunt’s neighbors would be familiar with, I bet. They still live on Wonder bread and Kool-Aid. They all still smoke, throw their plastics and paper into the dumpster, and drive trucks that billow black exhaust.

Also, I think it’s hard to be perfect. It all happens on a continuum. For example, I drive a regular car because I can’t yet afford a hybrid or converting to biodiesel. But I drive a small car, which works for me because I don’t have a lot of stuff or kids to cart around. I think that everyone needs to contribute the things that they can, and if everyone did that, the world would be cleaner. The problem is, I think, that a lot of people don’t even try at all.

P.S. I too have vegan shampoo. And even my cat eats all organic. So I’m used to Jeff laughing at me. :wink: Also my mom recently discovered a mail-order company that sells all natural products (cleaners, soaps, etc.) that don’t test on animals. So I’m in the process of converting my entire apartment into a chemical-free home. It takes awhile, though, because it’s remarkable how long AJAX and laundry detergent last.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Wow. Thanks for that. I do believe I am a little unrealistic at times, but I guess that some of us doing something is better than no one doing anything, right?

All of my family thinks I’m nuts. But that’s ok. I’m a lot healthier than them. And I wouldn’t feel too bad about your car. The last time I did research, it showed that a good fuel efficient car emits only a slightly higher amount of pollutants than a hybrid. Also, Trader Joe’s has some wonderful natural products. That’s where I get the cleaners and soaps. Good luck with the conversion!

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Posted: 16 January 2007 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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I love Trader Joe’s! Do they have one in Ramona now? (Or do you not live in Ramona?)

I didn’t know that about the fuel-efficient cars. Interesting. I was also really glad to hear the governor’s latest proposal to lower the carbon in gas. I hope that goes through. That would do a lot, I think.

I guess that some of us doing something is better than no one doing anything, right?

Absolutely. smile

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Posted: 16 January 2007 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Reality check- This post was originally about hardening of the arteries, somehow it became about general health… think thats where you get the two subjects, thread was somewhat hijacked with other stuff…


Petunia- Many of us zone for health and performance....The Zone diet promotes whole foods, fresh fruits and veggies, lean meats and fish. Good fats.  You are less (not un)exposed to all of the aforementioned additives and junk, eating less meat ( proportionally) and more fresh fruit and vegies. That is not to say that additives, hormones and pesticides are not there. Again, in proportion to someone eating…say…McDonalds and twinkies, you would be less exposed. Even the standard American diet High Carb low fat will expose you to more of the junk.

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“History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid” - Gen Eisenhower.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Been gone for a while. Interesting discussion people. Very fun! Petunia..miss you too woman. :D You need to come up to the sticks more often.

Bobbi; I understand all that you are saying and highly respect all of the research that you have done. My original point is that I believe we have become a society of justifiers that look for the easy answer and sometimes it is just a matter of telling a child to get away from the t.v., computer, cell phone etc and play outside, take a walk (Or GOD forbid) do some yardwork.

I also apologize for being a bit sensitive. After losing some weight, people made some of the rudest, off-hand comments to me. So my skin is a little thin when it comes to that. As the mother of teenage daughters, weight is a continual topic in our house, much to my dismay. And fighting media driven body images is a constant battle. Again, I can get a little sensitive on the subject. Right now, I am having some major back problems so I haven’t been able to work out as I like, and am very conscious of it.

That being said, I applaud all of you that take it upon themselves to be concerned about all of the issues. But I, myself, am going to continue to enjoy what I can. I know that there are problems with this and that, and maybe I am sticking my head in the sand, but I certainly have enough issues of my own that I refuse to worry about the tap water I don’t drink, whether my shampoo is vegan (for goodness sake, I don’t eat it), and whether the carcinigions(you know what I mean) from the plastic packaging is leaking into my foods. If I am going to stress about those things I might as well pick up a dozen of Krispy Kremes on the way home (because I miss those more than french fries!) and be done with it all.

So, sorry if I offended anyone. No offense was intended.

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Posted: 16 January 2007 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Guilty- sorry! Got onto a subject I feel very strongly about and I got excited. Perhaps a different thread…..

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Posted: 17 January 2007 01:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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[quote author=“DD”] After losing some weight, people made some of the rudest, off-hand comments to me.

Really??? People are so strange. If you’re fat, they talk trash about you. If you’re thin, they talk trash about you. If you exercise, they call you zealous; if you don’t, they call you lazy. DANG. I wish they’d all just shut it already.

Sticks…yes. I kind of miss the sticks, actually. We’ll have to get together for a no carb, no hormone, no trans fat, all organic, non Krispy Kreme lunch. It’ll be fun!

Mikki…ohhhh…I see. That makes sense. Thanks!

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