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My Lack of Progress
Posted: 16 December 2009 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I have been CFing for almost 3 months now regularly…have not missed many WODs.  I was told to do the warm up and then the WOD and possibly a little skill work afterward, but NOT to overdo it like i wanted to in the beginning.  I have since learned to respect the WOD and enjoy the day off.  Today was a very frustrating WOD..HSPU and strict PU’s.  I am not heavy but i am not really strong either.  I was pretty much able to do 6 or 7 strict pullups when i started and now i can only do the same amount.  My shoulder presses have not improved even 5 lbs in the last 3 months.  max on HSPU is 3.  For the life of me i can’t imagine EVER being able to do that WOD Rx’d.  I just don’t see myself getting any stronger….a little more skillful?....yes   Am i just being impatient?

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Posted: 16 December 2009 11:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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At the risk of stepping on toes… I’ll throw out…

What’s your diet like?

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Posted: 16 December 2009 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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You are not being impatient, but what you do need to do is more HSPU progressions (cash outs) You need to work the full range of motion. The shoulder presses take time and are one of the hardest to go heavy. Devote one or two days a week to work the presses. Your fine.

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Posted: 16 December 2009 02:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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SP is tough and does take LOTS of time.  My 1RM SP for 1/2008 was 155; started on a pre-version1.0 CFSB from GD and after 2 years of working it every week my 1RM is now only at 175.  Similarly my HSPU max set has not changed much in that time.

What HAS changed is my ability to do more pressing work in a shorter period of time.  I may do things in smaller sets, but I take less rest b/w sets now than I did a year or 2 ago… and that’s the goal.  Keep pluggin’ away and like BigD says, put it in buy-ins or cash-outs on a regular basis…

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Posted: 16 December 2009 03:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Yea to second this if you look at the wods we dont do many shoulder presses or hspu. They are well known to be used in cf but they really dont come up that often in the programming. I am in the same boat as you with my shoulder work, they are week. I know i need to work on them, they just arent at the top of the list for skill work. I believe they are coming up fast though.

Keep at it, with hard work you will improve.

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Posted: 16 December 2009 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Crzylizard - 16 December 2009 11:40 AM

At the risk of stepping on toes… I’ll throw out…

What’s your diet like?

thanks for responding…i think my diet is pretty solid.  meat, nuts , veggies, fruit….maybe more yogurt than i should but very conscious of what i consume.  i know the diet may make the subtle difference but we are not talking subtle here….this is weather my muscles are getting stronger or not…

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Posted: 16 December 2009 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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BIG D - 16 December 2009 11:47 AM

You are not being impatient, but what you do need to do is more HSPU progressions (cash outs) You need to work the full range of motion. The shoulder presses take time and are one of the hardest to go heavy. Devote one or two days a week to work the presses. Your fine.

thanks for the quick response….so are you saying “one or two days” after my WOD?  do some shoulder presses and try to get past my PR or high reps?  I can do 3 hspu’s.  should i pike them and try for the higher reps or do them rx’d against the wall and just do 2 or 3 at a time??

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Posted: 16 December 2009 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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JDG - 16 December 2009 02:36 PM

SP is tough and does take LOTS of time.  My 1RM SP for 1/2008 was 155; started on a pre-version1.0 CFSB from GD and after 2 years of working it every week my 1RM is now only at 175.  Similarly my HSPU max set has not changed much in that time.

What HAS changed is my ability to do more pressing work in a shorter period of time.  I may do things in smaller sets, but I take less rest b/w sets now than I did a year or 2 ago… and that’s the goal.  Keep pluggin’ away and like BigD says, put it in buy-ins or cash-outs on a regular basis…

thanks….i have really only been doing the CF warm up….it’s OK to work on SP or HSPU as a warm up?  always afraid that i won’t have anything left in the tank if i do that.  Am i shooting for high reps with good form or lower reps with good form?

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Posted: 16 December 2009 03:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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mastroj - 16 December 2009 03:14 PM

Yea to second this if you look at the wods we dont do many shoulder presses or hspu. They are well known to be used in cf but they really dont come up that often in the programming. I am in the same boat as you with my shoulder work, they are week. I know i need to work on them, they just arent at the top of the list for skill work. I believe they are coming up fast though.

Keep at it, with hard work you will improve.

thanks bro!  have been going along pretty ok for the last 3 months but today’s wod just blew me away.  I can’t imagine that even 50% of the CFers can Rx it….so why would they prescribe it?

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Posted: 16 December 2009 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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enginecap - 16 December 2009 03:44 PM
JDG - 16 December 2009 02:36 PM

SP is tough and does take LOTS of time.  My 1RM SP for 1/2008 was 155; started on a pre-version1.0 CFSB from GD and after 2 years of working it every week my 1RM is now only at 175.  Similarly my HSPU max set has not changed much in that time.

What HAS changed is my ability to do more pressing work in a shorter period of time.  I may do things in smaller sets, but I take less rest b/w sets now than I did a year or 2 ago… and that’s the goal.  Keep pluggin’ away and like BigD says, put it in buy-ins or cash-outs on a regular basis…

thanks….i have really only been doing the CF warm up….it’s OK to work on SP or HSPU as a warm up?  always afraid that i won’t have anything left in the tank if i do that.  Am i shooting for high reps with good form or lower reps with good form?

Check Leo Soubbotine’s article on the gymnastics warm up. This can help you work towards a higher volume of HSPU. Regarding shoulder press work, I hit a rock in my 1RM at 145, so I started looking for my 5RM last week. I decided to try for a new 1RM shoulder press and I was very, very, very close to getting 155 over my head (about halfway up before my arms called it quits). You can experiment and find what works for you.
And regarding your warm up, it doesn’t always have to be the official CFWU. A good point was established here by Metric: http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/4191/#52844
To quote:

Yes.

But really honestly, warmups are not a big deal. There are LOTs to be said for the CFWU as a very effective full body warm up and Greg A’s is built along the same lines.
In the end it doesn’t matter. The warm-up gets you warm and ready to train. That’s it.
If you speed skate around the block a couple times that’s a good warm-up for some WODs.
If you swim a few 100meters that’s a good warm-up.
Your warm-up can be different each time, it can include things you want to work on, it can be same each time.
It’s a warm-up, not a religious observance.

To use the religious analogy, the CFWU is like the Lord’s Prayer. It’s a suggestion and an example of how to warm-up, not necessarily a prescription for how to warm-up every time. If you can’t think of any other way to do it, fall back on the CFWU. It’s always there and it’s always right.

And yes, this is coming from someone who used to be very anal about the “right” warm-up.

But if you find including the sacrifice of a chicken helps your numbers, let me know.

Point of the matter: you can vary your warm up and use it to hit some goats of yours i.e. presses and HSPU. What it requires is hard work and effort. If we don’t do anything about it, nothing will change. I’m in the same boat just like you and many others on this thread. My full-range HSPU max is 5 and it hasn’t changed a lot lately. I try and work at it from time to time.
Edit: Remembered this one too. GD quoted Glassman on this in the MEBB thread (notice the first phrase):

“There is plenty of time within an hour session to warm up, practice a basic movement or skill or pursue a new PR or max lift, discuss and critique the athletes efforts, and then pound out a tight little couplet or triplet utilizing these skills or just play. Play is important. Tire flipping, basketball, relay races, tag, Hooverball, and the like are essential to good programming, but they are seasoning like salt, pepper, and oregano. They are not main courses.”

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Posted: 16 December 2009 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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enginecap - 16 December 2009 03:46 PM
mastroj - 16 December 2009 03:14 PM

Yea to second this if you look at the wods we dont do many shoulder presses or hspu. They are well known to be used in cf but they really dont come up that often in the programming. I am in the same boat as you with my shoulder work, they are week. I know i need to work on them, they just arent at the top of the list for skill work. I believe they are coming up fast though.

Keep at it, with hard work you will improve.

thanks bro!  have been going along pretty ok for the last 3 months but today’s wod just blew me away.  I can’t imagine that even 50% of the CFers can Rx it....so why would they prescribe it?

DUde if 50% of crossfitters could do this as rx’d in the desired time glassman has failed. These workouts are designed to crush elite athletes. Crush…. elite…. How many people do you think are elite, dont include me in that list because this workout would easily crush me, wait does that make me elite?!?!?!? surprised ..... No, i would need to be crushed and finished in a given time domain. We all need to scale for this reason, keep yourself in that given time domain and push until you are crushed and finished. Dont be so hard on yourself, these elites have been involved in fitness, and unlike most everyone close to the correct type of fitness for the majorirty of their lives/ careers. We will both get there some day its just going to take time.

As far as your questions on what weights to use for your warm ups check out http://evolveyourfitness.blogspot.com/2009/06/advancing-intermediate-crossfitter-part.html and the other parts to this conversation. You will likely need to vary your warm ups between heavy weights and high reps. For the hspu i would suggest scaling and working on higher reps.

Good luck

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Started crossfit 5/1/2009 265#‘s
“No matter whom you are you have weaknesses and Crossfit will shed light on those weaknesses, enabling you to work on them.” Me
“Mastroj is a tsunami on the Eastern Seaboard . . . ” TexasPatrick
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Posted: 17 December 2009 02:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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kinyaner - 16 December 2009 04:20 PM
enginecap - 16 December 2009 03:44 PM
JDG - 16 December 2009 02:36 PM

SP is tough and does take LOTS of time.  My 1RM SP for 1/2008 was 155; started on a pre-version1.0 CFSB from GD and after 2 years of working it every week my 1RM is now only at 175.  Similarly my HSPU max set has not changed much in that time.

What HAS changed is my ability to do more pressing work in a shorter period of time.  I may do things in smaller sets, but I take less rest b/w sets now than I did a year or 2 ago… and that’s the goal.  Keep pluggin’ away and like BigD says, put it in buy-ins or cash-outs on a regular basis…

thanks….i have really only been doing the CF warm up….it’s OK to work on SP or HSPU as a warm up?  always afraid that i won’t have anything left in the tank if i do that.  Am i shooting for high reps with good form or lower reps with good form?

Check Leo Soubbotine’s article on the gymnastics warm up. This can help you work towards a higher volume of HSPU. Regarding shoulder press work, I hit a rock in my 1RM at 145, so I started looking for my 5RM last week. I decided to try for a new 1RM shoulder press and I was very, very, very close to getting 155 over my head (about halfway up before my arms called it quits). You can experiment and find what works for you.
And regarding your warm up, it doesn’t always have to be the official CFWU. A good point was established here by Metric: http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/4191/#52844
To quote:

Yes.

But really honestly, warmups are not a big deal. There are LOTs to be said for the CFWU as a very effective full body warm up and Greg A’s is built along the same lines.
In the end it doesn’t matter. The warm-up gets you warm and ready to train. That’s it.
If you speed skate around the block a couple times that’s a good warm-up for some WODs.
If you swim a few 100meters that’s a good warm-up.
Your warm-up can be different each time, it can include things you want to work on, it can be same each time.
It’s a warm-up, not a religious observance.

To use the religious analogy, the CFWU is like the Lord’s Prayer. It’s a suggestion and an example of how to warm-up, not necessarily a prescription for how to warm-up every time. If you can’t think of any other way to do it, fall back on the CFWU. It’s always there and it’s always right.

And yes, this is coming from someone who used to be very anal about the “right” warm-up.

But if you find including the sacrifice of a chicken helps your numbers, let me know.

Point of the matter: you can vary your warm up and use it to hit some goats of yours i.e. presses and HSPU. What it requires is hard work and effort. If we don’t do anything about it, nothing will change. I’m in the same boat just like you and many others on this thread. My full-range HSPU max is 5 and it hasn’t changed a lot lately. I try and work at it from time to time.
Edit: Remembered this one too. GD quoted Glassman on this in the MEBB thread (notice the first phrase):

“There is plenty of time within an hour session to warm up, practice a basic movement or skill or pursue a new PR or max lift, discuss and critique the athletes efforts, and then pound out a tight little couplet or triplet utilizing these skills or just play. Play is important. Tire flipping, basketball, relay races, tag, Hooverball, and the like are essential to good programming, but they are seasoning like salt, pepper, and oregano. They are not main courses.”

thank you….you spent a lot of time on that response and i really appreciate it!

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Posted: 17 December 2009 02:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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mastroj - 16 December 2009 04:47 PM
enginecap - 16 December 2009 03:46 PM
mastroj - 16 December 2009 03:14 PM

Yea to second this if you look at the wods we dont do many shoulder presses or hspu. They are well known to be used in cf but they really dont come up that often in the programming. I am in the same boat as you with my shoulder work, they are week. I know i need to work on them, they just arent at the top of the list for skill work. I believe they are coming up fast though.

Keep at it, with hard work you will improve.

thanks bro!  have been going along pretty ok for the last 3 months but today’s wod just blew me away.  I can’t imagine that even 50% of the CFers can Rx it....so why would they prescribe it?

DUde if 50% of crossfitters could do this as rx’d in the desired time glassman has failed. These workouts are designed to crush elite athletes. Crush…. elite…. How many people do you think are elite, dont include me in that list because this workout would easily crush me, wait does that make me elite?!?!?!? surprised ..... No, i would need to be crushed and finished in a given time domain. We all need to scale for this reason, keep yourself in that given time domain and push until you are crushed and finished. Dont be so hard on yourself, these elites have been involved in fitness, and unlike most everyone close to the correct type of fitness for the majorirty of their lives/ careers. We will both get there some day its just going to take time.

As far as your questions on what weights to use for your warm ups check out http://evolveyourfitness.blogspot.com/2009/06/advancing-intermediate-crossfitter-part.html and the other parts to this conversation. You will likely need to vary your warm ups between heavy weights and high reps. For the hspu i would suggest scaling and working on higher reps.

Good luck

thanks bro….today is day one!...........again

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Posted: 17 December 2009 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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if anything, enginecap, i know on days where i just had a bad WOD, rather than focus on “that sucked,” i focus on where i am now. you mentioned in your first post you’ve become “more skillful.” How so? Review and look over those positive developments. If you keep positive, you’ll just note the WOD and prepare yourself for it. CF isn’t just about physical fitness, it’s about mental toughness too. Look at the positive to keep yourself upbeat and ready to hit anything CF throws at ya and just keep working at your goats. Then this will come up again and you’ll hit it hard and get your revenge cool grin

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Posted: 17 December 2009 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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When doing the HSPU progressions if you have to pike to get full range of motion (Head to floor) then do it. Range of motion is key.

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Posted: 18 December 2009 05:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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BIG D - 17 December 2009 08:53 PM

When doing the HSPU progressions if you have to pike to get full range of motion (Head to floor) then do it. Range of motion is key.

lol…i am not really as dense in the head as this might seem.  When i say “pike”, i mean with my feet on a box and my torso as vertical as possible…thats the only way i can do ten reps.  As that what you mean by progressions?  should i countinue those until i can do , like 20 or so?  doing ONE hspu during a wod just does not seem productive to me.  It’s like, if i could only do 1 pullup, then i would use rubber bands.

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